Ippo Makunouchi vs Joe Yabuki (Hajime No Ippo vs Ashita No Joe)

 

"Warriors are not the ones who always win, but the ones that always fight."

-Conor McGregor


Ippo Makunouchi, Kamogawa Boxing Gym's featherweight hard-puncher with great spirit.


Joe Yabuki, Tange Boxing Gym’s bantamweight “killer” with eyes of the beast.


The world of boxing is huge and people don’t start the route to it at its peak. Today they'll take a first step and train, struggle, face obstacles, all to be able to become the best of themselves. And tomorrow they’re reaching and surpassing all humanly possible limits. But out of these 2 legendary boxers, who would take the winner belt, and who would get out with a deadly knockout? 

Before we start

Naturally, by Death Battle standards we’ll be using both Ippo and Joe at their peak potential. As well as some of their side media (such as video games), will be used if necessary. Matchup itself would be treated as a 12 round professional boxing match (each round being 3 minutes long with 1 minute rest period). As such rules from the boxing matches would be used whether it be for benefit of either or not really (ex: If Ippo or Joe do get Knocked Out or Slipped, neither would keep fighting unless the one who has fallen gets back on his legs. Another ex: match ends on KO when referee counts to 10). For the curious here are some basic rules.


Obviously this means we're fully covering Hajime No Ippo and Ashita No Joe, so surprise surprise it'll have Spoilers for both series. So we've warned you.


Other than that, have fun.

Background

Ippo Makunouchi

"I want to be strong too! I want to be reborn! How do strong people feel?"


"What does it mean to be strong?" This question has crossed the minds of countless individuals around the world with varying answers: some find it in physicality, some in intelligence, and some just brush it off as meaningless. But for a young Japanese man this was just the start of a journey, a journey that would get his name in the immortal legacy chambers of boxing history: This was the story of Ippo Makunouchi.


Losing his father at a young age and helping his mom maintain the family fish boat business made Ippo's childhood far from pleasant. That combined with his timid personality and impressive stature made him an easy target for bullying from his peers. That was until one fateful day he was saved by a novice boxer named Mamoru Takamura. Feeling pity for the boy Takamura took him to Kamogawa gym where he gave Ippo a choice to help him train in the art of boxing due to his already well-built physique. After some more training, getting into a rivalry with fellow boxer in training Ichirō Miyata and earning the respect of the gym coach Genji Kamogawa from his strong spirit with his first spar against Miyata, Ippo was ready to box his way into history. Now because Hajime no Ippo is a ludicrously long story here is a short highlight reel of all the events that happened: he boxed for a really long time, got two other rivals, became the Japanese Boxing Champion, rises among the ranks, battled the #2 ranked featherweight of the world, After showing the symptoms from his third loss he retired due to risk of becoming Punch Drunk, after two months returned to the ring as a second, gained a pupil, became a full-time trainer and the series leads to believe that he will eventually return to boxing. For 10 years Ippo has done a lot of things and got from a meek local boy to a respected featherweight. But no matter what the future holds in store for him, Ippo Makunouchi will look directly at both the past, present and future with a clear head and an open mind. 

Joe Yabuki 

"The world's strongest man is waiting for me on that ring. That's why…I've gotta go."


Let me ask you a question. What does it mean to want to fight? Better yet, what does it mean to want to fight the best? To answer that, let’s go to the year 1968, where Tokyo and the rest of Japan was full of slums and 1 wanderer who traveled across all of it. Joe Yabuki was that wanderer. From the birth he never had parents or knew when he was born, he was just escaping all orphanages, until 1 day he fully escaped, being all alone, he wasn’t relying on anyone’s help nor did he have any reasons to live. With no aims in life, nor place to stay from childhood to his teenage years, Joe was traveling from place to place, until he reached out to Tokyo. Here in the slums he meets other people nearly as poor as himself, and a band of yakuzas that was trying to take money from a little girl. Joe didn’t like the approach of yakuzas so he beated all of them at once.


Joe’s punches were insanely strong and deadly, so much so that a former boxer trainer, Tange Danpei, saw a big potential in Joe. Initially Joe refused Danpei’s offer to train boxing and later on was arrested for committing the fraud and then transferred to the Tōkō High-Security Juvenile Prison. Initially planning to escape, Joe meets a man who far exceeds him in strength and skill, a man he overall considered a rival, "The Best" - Tōru Rikiishi. Joe decides to train boxing more seriously and sets himself on purpose, to fight on par with Rikiishi. Since that moment, his life flamed with fire, and no matter the obstacle Joe was going to overcome it to reach his goals. Eventually he leaves the prison and with Danpei as his boxing trainer they open a Tange Gym. Joe easily set himself a career with the amount of talent he got in boxing, so in no time he was ready to face Rikiishi and fight on equal grounds. Battle was tough but overall, Rikiishi took the victory over Joe, but at the cost of his life. 


Joe was mentally and physically traumatized by Rikiishi's death, so much that he subconsciously wasn’t able to hit opponent in the head anymore without of fear to kill or heavily hospitalize them, flame was still there, but it was weak the moment he lost “The Best” he was trying to fight. Gladly overtime, Carlos Riviera set that flame again, and once they clashed they fists in the ring, Joe overcame his trauma and was flaming brighter than ever. Later on however Carlos was beaten by a world champion - Jose Mendoza, so much that Carlos was diagnosed with Punch Drunk Syndrome, a syndrome where boxers can enter a state of dementia and remember only slight parts of their past. Now Joe starts to climb up the boxing ladder to eventually face and fight the best man in the boxing world - Jose. But overtime of his struggles and multiple boxers he fought, eventually Punch Drunk Syndrome got him as well. So much that Joe had to face it during his match with Jose. Despite that however, he didn’t care if he’s going to die. Cause in the end, fighting for Joe meant to taste action, to actually for the first time in his life begin to live. This burning sensation wasn’t a momentary sputter that others his age go through. It was so intense that it burnt his entire body up in an instant, so bright that the sun itself pales in comparison. And when it was over, only white ashes remained, not even any tiny cinders...just pure white ash.

Equipment 

Ippo Makunouchi 

Boxing Gloves

Standard Boxing Gloves that Ippo gets from The Kamogawa gym and when he fights in the Boxing ring, considering Ippo’s a featherweight they should be 8 oz.

Joe Yabuki 

Boxing Gloves

Gloves Joe Yabuki wears when entering the ring to fight. Considering him being a bantamweight fighter his gloves’ weight should be 8 oz. 

Skills and Techniques 

Ippo Makunouchi

Orthodox Style

Ippo specializes in the In-Fighter boxing style with an Orthodox stance. He relies on close range combat, getting in and pressuring his opponent with hard hitting blows. The style favors Ippo’s pure power, often having him seek a knockout over a decision victory.

Southpaw Style

Used while facing his first match of the Rookie Tournament against Oda Yusuke, Ippo has been able to adapt when injured and adopt a Southpaw stance of boxing. He leads with his right hand this also means that his jabs now have the power of straight punches.

Peek-a-Boo Style

The same style used by one of the greatest heavyweight champions of the world Mike Tyson, it's a stance where Ippo presses his arms together to block, while maintaining a low center of gravity. It is used to block the vital areas of the face and stomach. It allows Ippo to freely use hooks and uppercuts without being limited. Ippo eventually learned a refined variant after watching videos of Mike himself using it.

Brawling Style

A stance Ippo has taken while furious against Hisato Kojima. While using this style, Ippo only wants to do damage. He drops his guard, going for pure offense and brawling. Every punch Ippo throws will be 100% of his full power. While he can power through some blows, a strong enough counter can turn this stance against him.

Turtle Strategy

A strategy Ippo has learned from Takamura used a few times alongside his Peek-a-Boo Style. He puts his guard up to cover as much of his front body as possible, then waits out the opponent’s attacks. Looking for a good moment to launch a counterattack.

One Step Straight Punch

The first punch Ippo learned, another move that he learned from Takamura. Ippo puts his weight on his left foot, ducking, turning his waist and throwing a right punch.

Head Slip

A technique used for dodging any punches targeting the face by the user swaying their head side to side.

Gazelle Punch

Originally used by the youngest Heavyweight in history to obtain a belt, Floyd Patterson, Ippo kneels forward, then springs upward just like a Gazelle (Hence the name). The power of his legs carries him to deliver a hard devastating hook to his opponent. Aimed correctly, Ippo can stagger or even knock down an opponent.

Liver Blow

A close range maneuver aimed at where the liver sits, on the right side of his opponent’s body behind the ribs. It can slow down fast moving boxers if Ippo can hit it.

The Jolt

The Jolt is a move that allows the user to build up their entire body weight behind their punches. Ippo’s is similar to that of Jimmy Sisfa’s Tornado Jolt which is a modified right hook that has Ippo twists his entire body, adding to the speed and power of the blow. It can also be thrown in rapid succession, essentially being a more compact version of the Dempsey Roll. It’s only weakness is its long wind up and predictability.

Overhand

A normal boxing punch that is thrown at a downward diagonal trajectory towards the top of an opponent’s head.

One Centimeter Punch

This move was modeled after the former bantamweight & featherweight champion Eder Jofre's Uppercut. When close to an opponent, instead of his fist traveling the normal curve of an uppercut, Ippo throws his fist straight up directly into the tip of the opponent’s jaw that causes paralysis from the waist and down. It sacrifices power to attain a quicker impact. If entire glove is made with full contact on the target the damage is as lethal as The Smash

Ten Centimeter Punch

A compact version of the Liver Blow that Ippo uses at close range. Typically he’ll use it while his opponent is clinching. With no more than ten centimeters of space, Ippo delivers a close blow to his opponent’s side.

Heart Break Shot

A moved Ippo picked up from watching and fighting Eiji Date. It is a direct punch to the heart of an opponent. If it hits, the opponent will be paralyzed for a few moments to the point it's compared to being stopped in time, leaving Ippo an opening for almost any punch he wants. However, the target area is predictable if the opponent has experienced it first, leaving it open to being blocked and almost hard to pull off a second time in the same match.

Cross-Arm Block

The strongest blocking stance Ippo has in his arsenal. By crossing his arms together, Ippo can block even the heaviest of punches from his midsection. The downside of this technique is that it makes it difficult to throw punches. It also leaves Ippo open to body blows and hooks if he isn’t weaving.

The Frontal Charge

This attack was Ippo’s first method to counter a counter punch, Ippo moves his head forward and intercepts a blow mid movement; this move will decrease his opponent’s power output down to 50% of their normal damage.

The Crouching Stance

The move Ippo learned while battling the ultimate featherweight veteran Keichi Take who rivaled Date in skills, he defeated Take with one of his own tactics. Ippo crouches his body lower and moves it into his opponent. This move weakens his opponent’s power output by 50% while also adding more power to his punches via the angle. An early method of this stance was used against Volg in which Ruslan states made Ippo absorb Volg’s punches to make him believe his hits weren’t working.


Shoulder Block

A technique that allows Ippo to parry a punch with his shoulder. Unlike Turtle Style, Ippo doesn’t completely commit to defense when using it. This leaves him in a much more advantageous position to counter afterwards. It will also reduce the opponent’s power output down to 30% of their normal damage.

Neck Spin

Ippo picked this one up after having experienced it first hand when facing Eiji Date, it was made to counter blows to the head. When an opponent lands a punch, the user swings their head to the side, lessening the momentum and damage of the punch; the damage can even be minimized to the point there is no damage.

Tekken

Firstly founded by his own coach Genji Kamogawa in his prime, they are the result of training so intensely via hitting large logs into the side of a hill with your bare fists that your fists become as hard as iron. With the strength of these punches, Ippo can leave an imprint of his fist on an opponent, break ribs, and damage organs.

Sakki

A feint technique Ippo learned while training in the mountains for his rematch against Sendo for the japanese boxing champion belt. It utilizes to trick opponents down to the 5 senses generating the feeling of an attack that never comes. Ippo will throw a feint punch to get his opponent to guard or attack, opening up a chance for him to counter them and making the opponent's next move predictable. 

Body Blow

A punch aimed at the middle section of the body, and Ippo’s go to area during in-fighting moments being the liver & diaphragm a hard enough blow to the body can cause disrupting blood flow and improper oxygenation as well as suffocation and minor paralysis.

Dempsey Roll

Originally invented by American professional boxer Jack Dempsey, the Dempsey Roll is a high-level technique consisting of remaining in a crouched stance and using frantic swaying movements to confuse the opponent. This figure eight motion combines weight and weaving to deliver devastating consecutive blows. Ippo adopted this as his greatest tool during his comeback match without even knowing it existed, and it’s certainly worked out well for him. However, this pattern is predictable and repetitive to those with a high skill level, so it can be countered and punished.

     Free Form Dempsey Roll           

The ultimate evolution of the Dempsey Roll. Ippo sways his head diagonally up and down instead of just side to side. This allows him to throw an unbelievable combination of hooks, uppercuts, and overhands while in the motion of a Dempsey Roll. It has been described as nearly impossible to counter, and is one of the best moves in Ippo’s repertoire. initially using it brought down an incredible strain on his lower body. However Ippo no longer feels any pain when performing this technique.

Fear Instillation

Ippo’s punches are so deadly they can instill fear into his opponent even if the punches have little to no contact and can even cause a false mental image in return.

Analytical Thinking,Adapting & Mimicking

While most would forget due to his mistakes from his own stubborn mindedness during the later half of his match against Alfredo Gonzalez, Ippo at his best has very keen eyes & mind when it comes to Boxing being capable of thinking a few steps ahead of opponents, can figure out an opponent’s fighting style and changes in their fighting style off of related & non boxing related hand & feet rhythm movements alongside their flaws,mimicking them and can keep pace with mind games comparable to a “High Level Chess Match” and his skills were even considered “World Class” for reference of experience & skill in the series. 

Accelerated Development & Growth

Ippo is capable of getting stronger in little time, after every Boxing match and even while he’s currently not Boxing his muscles are capable of “evolving” far beyond normal limitations. If faced with an opponent of rivaling physical capabilities and he’s reached his peak the “MIX - UP” effect will occur where Ippo gets stronger over the course of the match every time he is hit surpassing his previous limitations.

Fighting Spirit

 

It's Ippo's last resort that kicks in when against all odds and facing defeat a fighter’s eyes will begin to glow with light; it's basically a “second wind”. In this state the body’s power can skyrocket to rival or even dominate opponents they were initially inferior to and allow the user to keep fighting even while under severe physical conditions to even feeling unconscious or near death. 

Joe Yabuki 

Jab

“For the sake of Tomorrow” #1. The first lesson Joe ever took from someone is also the first punch he ever learnt - Jab. The principle is simple. To get your attack through or to slow down your opponent, you continuously punch with your left, keep the left elbow close to the body, aim slightly inside, and punch with a thrilling motion. A right following three good jabs increases that right punch’s power by a factor of three.

Right Straight

Yabuki has learnt Jab but it was far from enough to compete with Rikiishi. So to match him and further evolve in boxing levels, Joe learnt a second lesson “For the sake of Tomorrow” - The Right Straight. Principle is to put your entire mass into your right arm and hit like you’re trying to pierce a target. After performing straight you must bring your arm back the same speed and in the same direction you punched from. 

Konnyaku Tactics

A technique that Joe’s trainer, Danpei Tange, taught to Aoyama after seemingly abandoning Joe (which was in fact secretly a way to teach Joe proper footwork that he is too stubborn to learn by himself). This is a certain style of boxing meant to be used against bigger and stronger opponents - you comfortably dodge their attacks for an extending amount of time while putting in minimal effort, tiring them out. Once they’re out of breath, you deliver a series of relatively weak punches that accumulate to deal some major damage over time. Joe overcame this technique by developing excellent footwork mid-fight, and he proceeded to use it himself in his final fight against Jose Mendosa.

“Turtle” Guard Stance

So, during the match between Aoyama Joe couldn’t land a single hit on him. During it however Joe managed to realize one important thing, defense matters too. So with that realization Joe not only improved his footwork, but developed a defense stance for himself, a stance where he covers his body as if he was a turtle, not allowing to hit on a body nor head. 

No Guard Stance

Unlike the previously mentioned stance this one uses an entirely different strategy. Instead of keeping guard and blocking damage this stance leaves arms down, no defense whatsoever, but higher agility. Using this stance, Yabuki fooled boxes numerous times to hit him, awaiting perfect timing to anticipate his opponent when he least expects it, like in the example you may see below.  

Cross Counter

The most famous technique of Joe which was originally invented by the Mexican champion, JosĆ© Medel. What Joe does is attack right as his opponent is punching him, and if he does it while also having their arms cross, he can essentially redirect his opponent’s and his own strength back at him (so assuming Joe’s opponent is as strong as he is, that punch is four times as strong as a normal one). A strong move which created an entire trope behind itself, at least when it comes to manga and anime.

Double Cross Counter

When seeing Joe’s cross counter in action, his first official rival and fellow boxing prodigy Wolf Kanagushi with his trainer developed the double cross counter, essentially a counter to a counter. Due to more anime boxing magic, this counter stacks with the first one, dealing 8x a normal punch when pulled off correctly. 

Triple Cross Counter

Wolf’s counter to cross counter was tough, however during the same match in which we see him using said counter, Yabuki already developed own counter. In other words, Triple Cross Counter which counters the straight punch used in Double Cross Counter in basically the same way Joe counters straight punch with cross counter. If Cross is 4 times stronger than straight punch and double cross is 8 times, triple cross is essentially 12 times more powerful than average straight.

Elbow Blow

Carlos Rivera’s signature technique which he uses for shits and giggles against opponents he doesn’t consider worthy of a real fight. Is very well hidden, to the point where Joe himself was the only person capable of noticing when Carlos uses it. Joe himself has shown to use it, but, it being an illegal attack, he’s only willing to use it when his opponent cheats too (or in a street fight).

Rope Fighting

Joe is an expert at using the ropes of a boxing ring in combat. In his first fight against Rikiishi he bounced off of the ropes in order to add more power and momentum into his cross-counter. And against Carlos he even managed to use properties of ropes in the boxing ring to deliver punches described below.

Kangaroo Punch

A technique Joe used in his fight against Carlos Rivera - he lays his arm on the ropes, then releases it and uses spring action to speed up his attacks and give them more kinetic energy (like a kangaroo!). This attack notably can send a man flying with a body blow, which is something that Joe can only do with punches aimed in the face otherwise.

Rope Uppercut 

Similar to the technique above, once Carlos cleverly counters the kangaroo punch by holding the ropes in place with his arm, Joe instead drops down on the lower ropes, then uses them to spring his entire body up, delivering a devastating uppercut.

Chom-chom 

A deadly murder technique developed by the ruthless and calculating North Korean boxer Kim Yong-Bi. Kim pins his opponent against the ropes and then makes them “dance”, meaning he knocks them down, but as they are about to fall. He uppercuts them back to the ropes and continues his assault until they’re on the brink of death. Consider this an infinite combo in a fighting game - Joe was the only boxer in Kim’s entire career who withstood this attack, standing up within the 10 second count after the referee finally made Kim step away. Joe himself, ironically and inadvertently, uses a strategy similar to this during one of his prison matches, where he pinned his opponent to the ropes and then proceeded to deliver body blows so powerful and quick, he made him appear to be floating in the air, until the poor devil finally fell off the ring.

Jump Punch 

Basically what Joe does here is jumps really high and with help of gravitation punches the opponent down into the earth. It’s simple but effective and helps to counter opponents with high mobility techniques such as Harimau with his acrobatic combat which involves flipping and traveling across the entire arena.

Corkscrew Punch

The signature technique of World Champion - Jose Mendoza. A high level punch which further increases damage by adding additional spin just like a corkscrew (hence, the name). Force of that punch is strong enough to be spread into the bones of a human body. Joe himself even managed to copy this punch later on during his match with Mendoza.

Shoulder Grab

Another technique Joe copied from Mendoza and used against him. Joe grabs an opponent to his shoulders and allows them to punch anywhere. From the viewer's perspective it may seem that Joe (and originally Jose) just demonstrably shows his superior durability. In reality however, due to this grab holding boxer’s shoulders opponents’ punches become far weaker (due to them not being able to use enough upper body strength for a decent punch) and tires him out, later allowing Joe to push the opponent back and do more offense. Jose himself used said technique since he has low durability and thanks to it, he managed to outlast his opponents and beat them more easily. 

Incredible Timing and Accuracy


Joe has great timing which enables him to throw counter punches with devastating effect. For instance in his match against Wolf, he managed to successfully judge the distance and timing of Wolf's double Cross Counter after having the technique hit him twice and land the high-level Triple Cross Counter. In his fight with Harimau he managed to successfully use a jumping counter against the unorthodox and unpredictable fighter. In a fight against Carlos he managed to accurately dodge his quick and nearly uncounterable punches and use his punches instead. Overall, Joe often manages to pick correct timing and moment to do his while risky but powerful techniques. 

Acrobatics

Joe is quite athletic. Besides being able to quickly jump into a boxing ring, he can easily perform some moves that can be difficult to perform for athletes, can jump from high height and land perfectly fine without notable damage. Joe was even able to use Harimau's own acrobatic fighting style against him.

Quick Development and Growth

To no surprise Joe often becomes more and more stronger throughout the series and fights. For instance, when Joe learnt Cross Counter, with each time, his Cross Counter punches were more and more powerful than before. Or when at first punches from Rikiishi managed to take Joe down relatively quickly, in the second official match, Joe became far more tough to be knocked out as easily. When Aoyama at first was much quicker than Yabuki, Joe eventually became just as quick if not quicker in movement. Carlos, when fully serious was able to blitz Joe to the oblivion, in the same round, Joe eventually started to see his invisible punches and fight back. This kind of development of becoming stronger and stronger with each day, opponent and fight happens throughout the entire Ashita No Joe series up until the end.

Instincts

Joe was able to keep fighting while unconscious multiple times during the series,instinctively dodging an uppercut from Rikiishi, often utilizing his mental effort on planning strategies rather than using to perform his offensive/defensive moves. Joe's instincts can even warn him when his opponent is about to do something deadly.

Adaptation, Analysis and Mimicking

Joe is a naturally talented fighter, who is capable of grasping even highly difficult techniques with relative ease. Joe is repeatedly stated to be a fighting genius by Danpei, who is pretty damn smart himself when it comes to boxing. Joe learned how to do an effective footwork, block and even a high level sway all by himself, he also developed the no-guard stance by his own. He is capable of coming up with unorthodox strategies to win even in the heat of the moment and is a master at using ropes to his advantage, he used the ropes to land a cross counter on Rikiishi, managed to catch Pinang Sarawak off guard by using the ropes, Joe was even able to use the ropes not only to counter Harimau acrobatic attacks but also as way to make him fall of the ring in a perfectly legal way. Joe is also an excellent counter puncher, he was able to knock out a large number of Juveniles using the cross counter, created the triple cross counter during his fight with Wolf, and was able to counter Harimau's unpredictable acrobatic fighting style. During his fight against Jose Mendoza, Joe was able to completely negate Jose's defense which everyone thought was perfect, Joe was also able to understand the whole secret behind Jose's shoulder grip trick, Joe even managed to land a cross counter and a triple cross counter on Mendoza, despite being punch drunk and completely blind in one eye. Joe is also capable of mastering high level techniques with relative ease. Joe is capable of mimicking techniques through simple observation even after just a single viewing. He was able to perfectly copy the cross counter just after seeing it once. He copied Aoyama high level hit and run techniques through simple observation, Aoyama skills were on such a high level that not even Rikiishi was sure he could deal with them. He also copied Aoyama konnyaku techniques, while punch drunk, just by remembering it. Joe was able to copy Carlos Rivera's hidden elbow smash attack, something that's difficult for the average boxer to even see. Used Harimau's own acrobatic fighting style against him.

Intimidation

Joe generally scares the hell out of his opponents, scared a whole crowd, scared Inagaki to the point of desperation, was able to make Harimau tremble in fear and run away from him. Joe scared Yong-bi Kim so much that he was paralyzed with fear, Kim even thought Joe was some kind of a monster, and the thing is that Kim was like a computer, cold and calculating with a machine like personality, he never showed a ounce of emotion during a fight, but Joe completely destabilized him with fear. JosƩ Mendoza became so fearful of Joe during the fight that he went temporarily insane, screaming in complete terror and fighting like scared animal, JosƩ was convinced that he was fighting a ghost, the experience of fighting Joe was so abnormal that JosƩ got much older and and his hair got all white due to the sheer stress and fear he went through during the fight.

Willpower

Perhaps the biggest ace in Yabuki’s pocket isn’t Cross Counter or Corkscrew Punch or any other technique but rather sheer willpower. No matter how many times he gets hit, or how many times he gets knocked down he will still keep fighting. Joe is able to take horrible beatings and continue to fight, he can stand up and keep fighting after getting hit by devastating attacks time and time again to the point of exhaustion through sheer determination alone. He was able to keep fighting while unconscious multiple times during the series. Joe was able to stand up after taking Yong-bi Kim's chom-chom technique, a technique that no boxer was able to stand up after receiving it. Joe was able to keep fighting after taking a beating that would render any human's physical and psychological state destroyed, he was even able to beat Kim, despite having no stamina left on his body, due to the grueling weight loss he had while preparing for this fight. While trying to lose weight for the fight, Joe refused to eat and drink for dangerously long periods, even going so far as to pass out in a hot sauna just to shed the extra pounds. His willpower is strong enough to overcome his advanced punch-drunk state, something that defied even medical knowledge. In his fight against Jose Mendoza, Joe was able to fight against Jose, while severely punch drunk and blind of an eye, Joe was even dominating the fight during the last round despite being practically dead.

Support/Cornerman(s)

Ippo Makunouchi 

Genji Kamogawa

The owner of the Kamogawa Boxing Gym and Ippo’s trainers, Genji Kamogawa is a former prizefighter  himself having originally invented the legendary “Iron Fist” technique and coaches Ippo through every fight. He’s led other well known fighters alongside Haruhiko Yagi & Shinoda in the series like the Genius Manabu Itagaki, the well known rankers Tatsuya Kimura & Masaru Aoki and the strongest boxer in the series, Mamoru Takamura to world championship gold

He trains Ippo up until the day of the fight. He often investigates Ippo’s opponents weeks beforehand to analyze their fighting style so they can come up with a strategy to defeat them. Kamogawa is just as knowledgeable at ringside as he is when training Ippo, often being able to sense the change in the flow of the match giving ideas to Ippo to test out depending on whether they require technical styles or sticking to his guns and burst his way through with his “Yamato Damashii'' (Japanese Spirit). However if things get too rough for one of his boxers, he’ll do what’s right and throw in the towel to keep them safe, after a bit of hesitation anyway.


Joe Yabuki 

Danpei Tange

Owner of Tange Boxing Gym as well as Joe’s trainer, Danpei Tange is a big reason behind Joe going the route of a boxer. He trains Joe every day before the start of the fight and investigates opponents before the fight begins, to find out with who and what he and Joe have to deal with, and find a needed strategy. Danpei himself is often capable of analyzing the ongoing fight and when needed help Joe to come up with a strategy against the opponent. However if things are way too tough and hopeless Danpei won’t spare time to throw a towel for a fight to not become a massacre. 

Feats 

Ippo Makunouchi 

Overall

  • Holds 23 wins with only 3 losses

    • 100% KO rate

  • Became Rookie King and JBC Featherweight Champion 

  • Matched Filipino featherweight champion Antonio Guevara in combat (but ultimately lost to him)

  • Defeated Miyata in their second sparring match

  • Defeated RyÅ«hei Sawamura who would later become the JBC junior lightweight champion

  • Defeated Alexander Volg Zangief the IBF junior lightweight champion from Russia.

  • Defeated Malcolm Gat, the former reigning featherweight national champion of the Philippines

  • Defeated Wally, the Indonesian national champion

  • Defeated Jimmy Sisphar, former Thai featherweight champion.

  • Big Mara.

  • The man is a closeted Bisexual I swear

  • Hajime no Ippo has been going longer than One Piece and currently now has over 100 million manga copies sold in circulation

Strength

Speed

Durability and Endurance 

Joe Yabuki 

Overall

  • Holds 22 wins and 5 losses (3 losses of which were only a result of PTSD)

    • 95.46% KO rate

  • Became hero of slums

  • Defeated Wolf Kanagushi, Kim Yong-bi, Leon Smiley, Harimau and lots of other professional boxers throughout his boxing career.

  • Ended his fight against Carlos Riviera (№6 champion in WBC Bantamweight Championship rankings) in a tie.

  • Killed Toru Rikiishi

  • Fought and nearly defeated Jose Mendoza, №1 champion in WBA and WBC Bantamweight Championship rankings.

  • Became №1 champion in OPBF Bantamweight Championship rankings, №3 in WBC Bantamweight Championship rankings (and №1 in WBC rankings in Arcade version of Ashita No Joe and in secret ending of PS2 exclusive, "Ashita no Joe: Masshiro ni Moe Tsukiro!")

  • Has 3 life-size statues in Tokyo

  • Considered as one of the most iconic and influential anime in history, which not only inspired a whole character archetype, but also heavily inspired the Japanese audience of the time (so much so a group of Japanese communists hijacked a plane).

Strength

Speed

Durability and Endurance 

  • Continued to fight hordes of yakuzas despite being injured in the beginning of the series.

  • Was tortured by numerous prisoners in a cage for a long period of time only to get up a few moments after and beat everyone. 

  • Back in the colony was able to take hits from Rikiishi who managed to put bulls unconscious in one punch. (122.3 Kilojoules)

  • Can take hits from Carlos Riviera who was able to put Japanese professional boxers unconscious in a single punch. Including Tiger Ozaki, №1 Champion in Japanese rankings.

  • Took hits and continued to fight after Kim’s Chom-chom, a technique which killed boxers whenever it was used on them.

    • All while having an extreme diet to be in a bantamweight, to the point that he intentionally wasn’t eating nor drinking anything for weeks straight and had put himself in rooms with high temperature and even had to remove blood from his body to weight as much as needed.

  • Took hits and continued to fight after Jose Mendoza’s numerous Corkscrew punches, which put Carlos Riviera into Punch Drunk Syndrome and killed №1 boxer in WBA Bantamweight Championship rankings Harold Gomez, both in a single Corkscrew Punch.   

  • Survived multiple hits from Harimau’s Double Corkscrew Back-flip Uppercut (2.315 Megajoules) or 0.00055 Tons of TNT

  • Far more durable than people in the slums who were able to tank firework explosions (0.0283-0.088 Tons of TNT). As well was able to tank punches with multipliable amounts. 0.113-0.352 Tons of TNT through Cross Counter, 0.226-0.704 Tons of TNT through Double Cross Counter and 0.339-1 Tons of TNT through Triple Cross Counter

Weaknesses

Ippo Makunouchi 

Despite being the former Japanese champ, it’s not like Ippo has the biggest guts in the world. While he is certainly determined, more so than many other boxers, he is often intimidated when met with a challenge that stumps him, and begins to lag in performance accordingly before adapting to the situation at hand. 


His “Yamato Damashii” may have shown proof of his incredible endurance but it having caused him to fight until his body literally cannot continue has led to bad cases of accumulated damage. At some point in his career, he was even believed to have suffered from Punch Drunk Syndrome due to early symptoms, he’s currently retired from boxing and works as a corner man for Kamogawa Gym and hoping any damage he showed signs of having will repair itself and not be permanent.


Also, even though he has had some women flustered from his tenacity,spirit and nice guy personality the man lacks rizz when it comes to shooting his shot. He currently has eyes for Kumi but is scared to take advantage of her reciprocated feelings due to his often oblivious nature and her scary overprotective older brother Ryo Mashiba along with Ryo’s selfish hate for Ippo due to defeating him in the past.

Joe Yabuki 

Despite Joe’s lots of feats throughout his career, he isn’t perfect. He’s often too stubborn, short-tempered and impulsive for his own good, which clouds his judgment. And because of this he’s willing to take too many risks into his hand, and despite the principle of his “high risk, high reward” often working out, all of these Joe's traits can in turn cause him big problems as well. And eventually…it did.


Around the time Joe started to intentionally lose his weight to be in the bantamweight class and eventually fight Jose, taking hits from various champions across the world there was but one inevitable problem in the boxer's career - Punch Drunk Syndrome. At first it may not be noticeable but with this syndrome a good amount of functions which may look simple for an ordinary human would be impossible for boxers - they often can slip, their eyesight becomes worse, even something simple as fasten a button becomes impossible. At its worst this PDS puts boxers to the state of dementia where they can remember only small parts of their past, like it happened with Carlos Riviera after Jose Mendoza's Corkscrew Punch right into the temple. In the end, Joe, fully aware of him having a Punch Drunk Syndrome, went into battle for the World Champion title while this syndrome was starting to be at its worst. And no matter how well Joe fought, how bright he burned, the flame that was inside him went out that day, leading him to his death. 

 Summary

Ippo Makunouchi 

"The reason we train so hard in the first place is so we can make it home in one piece"

Advantages:

  • Fighting Spirit & MIX-UP make up for the initial weaker power & durability to the point Ippo can overtake Joe in this department

  • The Crouching Stance,Frontal Charge & Shoulder Block would nerf Joe’s initial power advantage even more

  • Slightly Faster with Joe's low ends

  • Arguably has higher stamina with Fighting Spirit taken into account.

  • Has way more fighting experience

  • Can mimic Joe's techniques…

  • Fairly takes stat trinity if use debatable feats

  • Peak Anime 

  • Gets as much as cross scaling as Joe 


Disadvantages:

  • Initially slightly weaker

  • Initially slightly less durable

  • Slightly slower with Joe's high ends

  • …but Joe can copy his techniques as well 

  • Cross Counter and other techniques' output can put Ippo at disadvantage in strength in the long run.

  • Speed Advantage eventually can be overcome through Joe's timing and quick development 

  • Dempsey Roll can be countered with some of Joe's techniques 

  • May or may not be currently Punch Drunk

Joe Yabuki 

"I burned my fire, until there was nothing left…All that's left is pure white ash…" 


Advantages:

  • Initially slightly more durable 

  • Initially slightly stronger

  • Cross Counter and other techniques' output helps despite the disadvantage in strength in the long run

  • Debatably has better stamina with Willpower taken into account.

  • Despite the speed disadvantage can eventually overcome it through timing and quick development.

  • Slightly Faster with high ends 

  • Can mimic Ippo's techniques…

  • Peak Anime

  • Gets as much as cross scaling as Ippo 

  • Has one of the most emotional soundtracks.

Disadvantages:

  • Ends up getting eclipsed in power and durability due to Fighting Spirit & MIX-UP 

  • Slightly Slower with low ends 

  • Less fighting experience

  • …but Ippo can copy his techniques as well.

  • Cross Counter can be countered with some of Ippo's techniques.

  • Punch Drunk Syndrome could be problematic

  • Imagine the most iconic thing about you being your death. 

  Before the Verdicts

“Ippo vs Joe” done by an computer

As a Match Up, Ippo vs Joe is one of the oldest ones, to the point that the general community outside of vs debaters had interest on who would win between the 2. As such once upon a time in the late 00s Ippo and Joe had a computer-simulated fight at the request of the fans. The simulation overall had Ippo as a winner in 5-th Round 2-nd minute 53-th second. Should it rather be used as an answer to the question of who wins? Not exactly, for what we know is mostly just the fact that the fight happened, and simulation actually has repeated itself 100 times where Joe did win in 43 out of 100. We do know it included some of Ippo’s techniques and some of Joe’s techniques but we also aren’t aware if they included everything for both, such as Joe’s Corkscrew Punch or techniques requiring acrobatics or Ippo’s Sakki or even Free Form Dempsey Roll which actually appeared in hundreds of chapters later after this simulation. As far as it goes, take it more as your average Mario vs Sonic or Link vs Cloud CPU matches in Smash games where they do fight with some of their moveset but not in the highest accurate potential or not with everything being taken into account. And that is without mentioning the fact that stats likely were not being taken into account during simulation either.    

Small Building to Building level and Supersonic to Hypersonic Ippo and Joe

(He lost his main advantage)

So, where do we start here? Both Hajime No Ippo and Ashita No Joe are more known to be grounded in comparison to other fighting related series, whether it be fighting games such as Tekken and Street Fighter (or yes, Punch Out as well), or anime/manga series such as Grappler Baki and Kengan Ashura. So with that in mind, usual expectations in stats for Ippo and Joe were somewhere around mid wall level and  subsonic-transonic, whereas we got them at levels that far exceed those. So how is that? 


Starting with more simpler ones, Ippo should reasonably be comparable to Takamura. Takamura meanwhile has some pretty simple feats on his back, aside from beating a large black bear that swipes trees that can get (0.6-1.6 Meganewtons), destroyed a table during arm wrestling (1.329-1.646 Megajoules) and even survived getting launched out of a steel reinforced window twice with no damage (2.456-6.713 Megajoules), Joe also got pretty straightforward feats that do get to such high near Small Building levels of power, most notably being breaking a concrete wall in a fight against Gondo (4.273-5.027 Megajoules) and scaling to Nishi who was able to shake an entire Tange Gym (178,055 Joules-5.63 Megajoules), these 4 feats by themselves are pretty explicit and don’t require any mental gymnastics. 


Now feats that do get even higher at mid small building or even building range probably require a bit more explanation and generally can be seen as more questionable. On Ippo’s side other higher feats rely on Kinetic Energy, one of Joe’s higher feats such as Harimau’s quick flips also uses Kinetic Energy to be on high levels. Is it reasonable to use them? While these aren’t as straightforward and more questionable both Hajime No Ippo and Ashita No Joe do acknowledge Kinetic Energy, in HnI it’s acknowledged to the point they use it to determine power scaling, in AnJ correct momentum and timing is one of the important things that make Joe's and others’ punches stronger than just punching really hard. 


Keeping that in mind Ippo gets upscaling to Miyata and his Red Lightning Punch which propelled at the speed of sound to the timeframe of Red Lightning at the very least gets 3.352-10.428 Megajoules or Itagaki who propelled his arms up at high-speeds getting 6.679-19.418 Megajoules, Saeki pulling a Bryan Hawk style Sway at high-speeds with his upper body getting 71.3-207.2 Megajoules and perhaps most powerful scaling to KE feat from Bryan Hawk who’s Sway back propeled his upper body at high-speeds gets 650.25 Megajoules-1.9 Gigajoules or 0.155-0.456 Tons of TNT. While Joe with equal leeway also not only tanks Harimau's punches during the flips which are 2.315 Megajoules but also himself have punched Harimau faster than latter was doing his flips, a KE of which varies from 309 Megajoules or 0.07 tons of TNT to 443.39 Megajoules - 15.96 Gigajoules or 0.1-3.81 tons of TNT. 


Besides using KE for feats Joe also gets to building levels through scaling to people of slum, who pretty much directly tank an explosion which reaches from 0.0283-0.088 tons of TNT up to 0.339-1 tons of TNT through counter multipliers, not mentioning the fact that Joe heavily upscales the feat itself. While feat does happen mainly in anime, and could be considered as more gag than a serious feat it’s still pretty much straightforward and applicable, while both anime series do follow the manga without breaking important plot points which exist in the lore/story of it (or at least not as much as how usually anime can go absolutely different from its source material). 


And Supersonic to Hypersonic HnI and AnJ feats are quite more straightforward. Pretty much a lot of these feats do get to those levels either with simple math or grow in speed throughout battles (or both). Simple enough, especially considering how often HnI and AnJ can have punches in boxing where they either create afterimages or punch so fast human eyes can’t follow through. All in all, as surprising as it is, those higher arguments for Ashita No Joe and Hajime No Ippo are good enough to be considered viable.

“Composite” Joe

So a bit above we did mention that we use both Ippo and Joe at their best theoretical condition/potential. Starting from simple stuff is that both Manga and Anime are being used, as explained above they don't have major contradictions with each other, only exception being the first anime's ending where Joe leaves boxing again after fighting Carlos (which also somewhat ends in cliffhanger and later AnJ2 goes back to one of the anime's previous plot points, take that as something similar to first FMA anime and FMA Brotherhood). Besides using multiple different materials such as both Manga and Anime, this brings the question of if it’s possible to be done with Joe while giving him some of techniques he took from Jose Mendoza, considering that after the same match where Joe used Grabbing Technique or Corkscrew Punch, he dies. This why for this case we also bring in additionally things as videogames, while by themselves they don’t really contain notable feats, 2 of them go at different line of events, first one being the Arcade game of Ashita No Joe where we while playing as Joe actually manage to defeat Jose Mendoza, and after doing so this happens:


Yeah um…if you’ve read the manga or watched the anime, you’d be as confused as we are. What is neat is that there is an even more weird secret ending in another Ashita No Joe game, exclusive to PlayStation 2 - "Ashita no Joe: Masshiro ni Moe Tsukiro!". In this game upon defeating Rikiishi (in their official boxing match) the game does give you an alternative storyline where Joe also actually defeats Jose. This ending also makes a plot twist where Rikiishi was actually alive this whole time and ends them fighting once more, which ends with both dying (well that was weird). Case in point, while neither Arcade or PS2 game are straight up canonical they can be used as official material to use Joe at theoretically his strongest peak condition and potential without being forced on Punch Drunk Syndrome on Joe’s end too much (or without making up a scenario where Joe lived after his fight for championship). It's still obviously a trouble for both Ippo and Joe, just not to the highest extent to be the biggest deciding factor. And well, obviously using Joe at his possible peak with some leeway makes MU more debatable and interesting, so there's that.

Tribute

(By u/Nomenbeb)

(By Banagherlinks)

(By JuCr)

(From official Hajime No Ippo manga, Chapter 806)

Verdicts

Z1

 (LET’S GET READY TO RUUUMMBBBBBBBBBBLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!)


Alrighty, it was a fun time doing this blog to finally get some in depth research for one of my most favorite manga of all time to the point I currently own some informative material pertaining to the story makes me soooo excited!!!!!! My picture above is even Lucia wearing Miyata’s tracksuit lol. I wanted to show people this goated series is higher than most would initially believe with one vsbattleswiki search. As for the topic itself I’m admittedly more of a Mac VS Ippo person but this would be a good alt for Ippo if Macippo didn’t happen but onto the topic. Of course as you can see with Ippo’s “debatable” ends he no diffs Joe to hell and back but even without those ends he obtains a solid victory here’s how.


Starting off with his “disadvantage” in attack potency & durability it appears like there’s not that much of a gap between Ippo and Joe initially with it being 0.155-0.456 Tons of TNT VS 0.339-1 Tons of TNT that is a lil over 2x strength gap. Ippo’s Fighting Spirit can amp his body so much that he can one-shot Hisato Kojima who originally one-shotted Ippo and amp his body enough to compete with base Takamura who Ippo himself thought would be “Impossible!” To compete beforehand means this gap is already going to look nonexistent. Piling that with Ippo & Joe's relative AP/Dur stats means Ippo’s MIX-UP effect can activate and increase Ippo’s power significantly the more he is hit. MIX-UP’s increase is big to the point Boxing Enthusiast & Journalist Minoru Fuji and other well respected Boxers like Ryo Mashiba & Takamura Mamoru can notice Ippo’s surprising power growth and combining it with Fighting Spirit means Ippo’s easily the one overtaking Joe in the power department and both have massive upscaling on these feats as well so it would be moot to argue who has the better initial upscaling chain on these feats. There’s also the methods Ippo has to nerf the 2x advantage EVEN MORE by 50-30% with his Crouching Stance,Frontal Charge and The Shoulder Block and down to mere single percentages or completely nullify any damage with the Neck turn. Now let’s use an even worse case scenario for both combatants and strictly use the main source material that is their manga’s. Ippo would be hitting well past 207.2 Megajoules while Joe would be well past 309 Megajoules that’s only a 0.67x strength advantage which not only isn’t it not enough to one-shot Ippo but Ippo’s nerfing methods would reduce his output down to 103 Megajoules or outputting little to no damage on Ippo with the plausible moot point of both being capable of copying each other’s techniques means Ippo would still be dishing out relative damage alongside Joe with his own multiplier techniques and vise versa. The stats would be relative enough for Fighting Spirit & MIX-UP to do damage to Joe and Ippo would play catch up much faster than Joe could take any advantage of his initial strength edge.


Onto speed there’s no question that Ippo is clearly the faster combatant here while Joe’s speed feats are consistently in the Subsonic+ - Supersonic+ ranges and intercepting Harimau’s double corkscrew back-flip uppercut get baseline Hypersonic+ on a reasonable end since the higher ends aren’t as reliable after doing the math for how much Harimau moves before Joe intercepts him (which was about >0.355m). Ippo is hitting Hypersonic+ - High Hypersonic ranges and this is without taking other factors that can make them much faster such as the Itagaki & Saeki naturally being FTE fighters but the speed feats that are being calculated by them actually taking place within Itagaki’s “Bullet Time'' which makes him strike 15x faster than Hoshi who can blitz Rookie tiers who get Subsonic-Supersonic ranges or Carlos initially appearing FTE to Joe who effortlessly blitzed Aoyama who was easily faster than Matoba could see him but truth be told I actually see Ippo taking a HIGHER edge in speed if we played this game with both fighters but as you can see Ippo’s still gonna be one step ahead. The Rikiishi pig feat has so much of a large gap in speed that it would be more likely to take any Supersonic-Supersonic+ range for it. Even using the average range of speed for the feat would only make it Hypersonic or even taking the high end that gets Hypersonic+ it’s still slower than Ippo. I can imagine some would argue Joe’s ability to adapt to his opponent to the point he can even overcome getting initially speed blitzed like when he fought Carlos Rivera would mean he’s not going totally get outsped by Ippo however someone being a stickler would say “There’s no quantifiable number for how much faster Carlos was blitzing Joe therefore you can’t assume he would speed up enough to keep up with Ippo'' but even saying Joe could adapt to Ippo’s speed, Ippo’s Fighting Spirit & MIX-UP amps boosts his speed as well so Joe getting faster still wouldn’t make up because Ippo would still be getting faster. It’s safe to say that if we were to stick to the source material being the manga’s directly the result wouldn’t change because Ippo would still be Hypersonic+ at worst.


Here comes the initial tricky part, with both combatants being super skilled fighters 

down to the point someone can argue they could understand and copy their styles via boxing & non-boxing related movements and having huge endurance to the point they could fight to the death. How do you argue who is more skilled and has more endurance? Well to me I think in this particular instance you’d have to argue who’s going to do it faster & effectively before the other, who’s naturally the smarter combatant and who has the most experience plays a big role. Ippo has been in the fighting game much longer than Joe as a fighter,currently as a cornerman and as a pro trainer to his pupil. Ippo being able to counter Take Keiichi’s tactical abilities who even made Eiji Date intimidated and the fact the Hajime no Ippo 30th Anniversary Best Memorial states Date knows and can utilize everything there is to know about Boxing in all aspects and the fact Ippo’s been able to perceive tactical mind games comparable to a “High Level'' chess match means Ippo is the naturally the more skilled,smarter & seasoned combatant going into this fight. To remind you guys The Hajime no Ippo Official Guidebook (1996) has “What If'' fight scenarios for the cast and had Chapter 260 OPBF Miyata beat Chapter 260 Ranker Date high difficulty via tactics & a high gamble Jolt counter to the point it was any man’s victory keep in mind Ippo currently still considers a current Miyata (who is leagues more experience and better past chapter 260) as his rival and the feeling is mutual, Ippo can easily create and do shadow boxing with a perfect copy in Miyata’s likeness meaning Ippo can currently beat Date in his Prime. Even accounting Joe’s adaptation and instincts Ippo has been capable of adapting over the course of a fight as well and Ippo’s significant speed edge makes up for Joe’s instincts since Ippo would be the one actually showing physical movement and attack before Joe’s body can react to the danger at hand. As for endurance, both could fight in critical conditions until death and Joe can fight for 15 rounds while having extreme weight problems but Ippo’s stamina is directly shown to be fully capable of shadow boxing for 6 rookie matches straight at peak condition which is >24 rounds alongside running 800m for 6 sets while maintaining speed in peak condition. While Joe eventually reaches a stage in his willpower form where he’s just a punching bag and while that’s mentally shooken up his opponents in the past it wouldn’t make Ippo budge who’s had experience with it before and Ippo can instill fear of his own so Ippo would win the slugfest. To summarize, Ippo has “big brain time” moments faster than Joe and is fully capable of still fighting at peak conditions for longer than Joe and Joe ends up succumbing to the injuries.


           I can imagine some are questioning the debatable attack power & speed for Hajime no Ippo placed here as well. While I stay neutral on the power aspects, the scene itself seems pretty direct. Takamura shatters a Helmet that Itagaki beforehand states could withstand a nuclear explosion and another source connected to Hajime no Ippo states Takamura has megaton punches of which there exists nuclear explosions around that range and less and Takamura proceeds to destroy SEVERAL of those helmets that same chapter, the only issue I can see people logically bring up for this is if there’s any future consistency for it in the series but still the amount Takamura destroys in that moment did show consistency. I can also imagine people would question the liability of High Hypersonic Ippo due to Miyata’s Red Lightning punch being emphasized as faster than the speed of sound. People miss that it's also emphasized as being the speed of light in that very same moment and other source material connected to Hajime no Ippo put more emphasis on the attack being the speed of light. I'd imagine people wouldn't buy the verse simply being lightspeed either despite it also being hilariously consistent with Miyata not even being the first character in the verse to reach that level of speed but needless to say the several instances of the verse being faster than sound as well would contradict this being barely faster than sound it also doesn’t simply say Miyata is barely past the speed of sound just faster than it. Most would agree with the Hajime no Ippo series not being Wall Level by just over 2 Tons despite Ippo nearly being knocked out by the force, got a headache afterwards and claiming he'd not like to take another punch at that level again because they've much shown higher consistent attack potency feats and so the same should be applied for speed not to mention the fact the same series that states this acknowledging Kinetic Energy concepts down to the point of power scaling would mean the amount of force being distributed at these high speeds would FAR exceed simply Wall Level. As for Joe, Carlos’s punches aren’t stated as being the speed of light several times in comparison so I don’t think it’s fair justification to use it as a rebuttal for Ippo’s higher scaling.


Now we’ve finally reached the conclusion YAY! Now to wrap this baby up in a box, Ippo hard counters Joe’s initial slight power & durability advantage with Fighting Spirit,MIX-UP,Crouching Stance,Frontal Charge and his Blocks, outspeeds Joe before he can react with his danger sense instincts or adapt fast enough to keep pace with Ippo in speed and has a leg up on him in the big brain department faster than Joe can and has the better endurance in the long run via fighting in peak condition for longer periods of time. Of course this is also before I say Ippo no diffs because of his higher stuff lmao but sticking back to the stats we have for him in this blog I guess you can say Joe is gonna get “Dempsey Roll-ed” over. The winner is Ippo Makunouchi!

Lunge the Fish


The fish boi is back ya fucks
Well, we’ve finally gotten to this point, I’m honestly surprised we got this far especially with how unproductive I’ve been. And I still get a very important ⅓ share in deciding who wins this fight. Huh.

Anyway, Ippo vs Joe. Did I tell anyone before that I love this fight? It’s arguably still my most wanted DB, although i didn’t come back to it in a long while, mostly thanks to Marvel vs DC brainrot (Azknight, fucking thank you). It’s a great matchup. I can go on and on and on about why I love it and how it’s better than Ippo vs Mac, but I’ll spare your ears. This fight - it’s got everything. Flashy techniques, ingenious 5D chess counters, and the magnitude of sheer manliness and tenacity that would make Berserk or FoTNS blush. But enough of that. Let’s get down to business. To defeat the Hu-

                    Stats wise, with equal leeway and such, I do think Joe holds a solid, although not an entirely overwhelming, advantage. Unless you use lightspeed and nuke helmet Ippo, but I don’t really buy either of them. The nuke helmet never specifies how exactly it could protect its wearer from a nuclear explosion, and it sounds a lot like a hyperbole - especially since I see no way that a dude would be able to tell it’s that tough. This isn’t helped by the fact that it’s said to be made of the same stuff as spacesuits which are… Blatantly NOT tough enough to survive atomic blasts… Lightspeed Ippo also sounds awfully like a hyperbole too, with how it’s phrased and all, and how their punches can still be recorded on cameras and all. Joe can similarly counter that with Carlos’s punches straight up appearing to be light to him, which I similarly don’t buy, but you know, equal leeway. Joe should hold a comfortable edge in stats thanks to Harimau feat ranging from small to large building at best, as well hypersonic+ to High Hypersonic+. Ippo’s similar feats only get to about 2x slower and about 4x weaker. If you cancel out Kinetic Energy and this sort of speed calc stacking that both of the combatants’ best feats rely on, Joe should still only be slightly slower, and much stronger than Ippo, due to his non-KE involving feats (breaking a concrete wall in his fight against Gondo and upscaling from the people in the slums, who tank a huge fireworks explosion). Regardless, Joe holds an edge in general stats which only gets worse when you factor in the cross counters (the three versions of it being a 4x, 8x and 12x multiplier of his power respectively). If Ippo takes one of them, the fight could end right there. Now, Ippo’s by no means entirely outgunned, as despite Joe inventing many determinator anime tropes, Ippo has utilized them FAR more. His fighting spirit technique, along with other similar determination based stances allows him to just… Close the gap in power between his opponent and him if he can’t pull it off. Now, not to say that Ippo can just become as strong as Superman if he needs to, but the gap between him and Joe is small enough that he could probably close it. The problem is that Joe has shown similar development mid fight, especially in the speed department.  When Joe was utterly mollywhopped and blitzed by Aoyama, he almost immediately got fast enough to blitz him in turn after developing proper footwork, to the point of running laps around him. He was also utterly blitzed by Carlos's "light" punches at first, before suddenly just... Gaining the ability to see and counter them. So both of their adaptive techniques may cancel out, which would give Joe a slight advantage in equal stats over all.

          Enough of that, now let's get into the biggest advantage Ippo has - quantity. Hajime no Ippo is long. Really long, in fact. Longer than One Piece. Just the sheer fact of that means that Ippo blows Joe out of the water in terms of the amount of fighting experience he had and the amount of techniques he was portrayed utilizing. Sure, Joe technically has been fighting for longer than Ippo, ever since he was a kid, but prior to meeting Danpei Joe was exclusively a street brawler and skilled boxers, like Rikishi, made quick work of him. Now, Joe has been shown to combine his boxing skills and instincts and his brawling self in his sparring fight against Gondo and his Yakuza buddies, but these blows are blatantly illegal, and Joe never cheats unless his opponents also do. In fact, Joe arguably doesn't cheat at all now, as even when Harimau was kicking him, elbowing him and biting him, Joe still ended up KO'ing the boxer fair and square. Ippo also technically has a much better boxing record, although of all five losses of Joe, arguably only his loss against Rikishi was truly legitimate. In his fight with Jose he was extremely crippled and nearly dead by its start, and in the three back to back losses he had after Rikishi's death, he lost mostly due to his inability to hit his opponents in the temple and his tendency to throw up after he did it. Regardless though, Ippo also has more applicable techniques to use here, with stuff like stopping his opponent's heart for a full second, or the sheer mobility and confusion of Dempsey roll. A lot of Joe's own techniques rely on the environment of the boxing ring, like the ropes, or were coined against a specific opponent, and he never faced anyone quite as versatile as Ippo, though the same can be said for Ippo never fighting someone as tenacious and inventive as Joe either. Cross counters, Ippo can most definitely counter once he faces their wrath, although even taking one of those bad boys would rough Ippo up very badly, potentially even ending the fight if Joe lands one when Ippo has already been worn down. Attacks like the corkscrew punch are simple, but effective, and would also certainly deal Ippo some trouble, although I find it plausible that Ippo could counter or even copy them, just like Joe did. 

     So, what have we got so far? Joe should hold a slight stat edge, and while both of them have been shown to close the gaps between them and their physically superior opponents, this would help Ippo out more, as their stupid accelerated development usually kicks in only when they're badly outdone, so Joe wouldn't get much use of it while Ippo can use it to help close the gap, although I think Joe would still hold a slight strength edge in the long run. Ippo in general has more techniques that are mostly wackier and more anime-ish than Joe's - Joe's skills are generally more situational and harder to implement, although, Joe's infamous cross counters are by far the most physically threatening technique either boxer possesses. The argument of which one of them is faster can reasonably go either way (I lean Joe, but not enough for it to actually affect my verdict), but Ippo overall has a fighting style more suited for high speed mobility and movement, so he'd generally be able to avoid hits more effectively, although Joe can close the gap with techniques like the no guard stance, which allows him to weave back more easily and attack from unexpected angles,

but I find it hard to believe that Ippo wouldn't adapt to it soon enough. Case in point - technique wise Ippo had more versatile techniques for general fighting, while Joe has more reliable ones for just punching really fucking hard, as well as minimizing the damage done to himself via the shoulder grab. That means, it is time to compare the final and deciding factor between them.

Their total

              Fucking

              Anime Badassery

Their ability to get hit, fall down and get back up again is impossible to overstate, and their willpower and toughness has become the staples of the genre in anime. But I do believe that at the end of the day, Joe Yabuki takes the cake in this one. Let me explain. Ippo's stamina is crazy good and totally mind boggling, as he can keep fighting while literally unconscious. That is crazy. However, Joe can not only do the same, but also fight when he is literally about to die. And who he fought, while in that near-death state was Jose Mendoza, the boxing world champion in Ashita no Joe, and fighting the world champ is something Ippo just didn't get to do yet. Joe was so beaten he could barely see, and his brain was more damaged than mine is rotten, yet he fought Jose and was actually about to KO him in the final round, but he was saved by the bell. And it was in this brain damaged state that Joe copied the corkscrew punch from Mendoza and utilized Aoyama's hit and run techniques he last saw years and years ago and never touched. Joe.

Is fucking vicious. He tanked Chom-chom, a technique that the advanced "human computer" boxer Kim Yongbi used to essentially murder past boxers in the ring. Joe just tanked that shit, threw the insanely calculating Kim off and beat the living shit out of him. And he did all of the above while already punch drunk (he likely already was by the time he fought Kim, though Kim is likely who made it develop so much) and, in Kim's case, starved and dangerously underweight. Ippo and Joe - they're just different people. Ippo took up boxing to become a better man - and so he did. He fought his best and then retired to become a trainer - could you imagine Joe doing so? No. Ippo has things to live for. Ippo, as passionate as he is about boxing, wouldn't throw away his life for it. Joe, however? Oh, he so would. Joe is a punk. A brawler. The Grim Reaper. 

Perhaps if his life turned out to be different, he would've had a different life. But he didn't. He lives for boxing. And he would die for boxing. And die for boxing he did. One has a life waiting for them. And another one is already dead, waiting to be killed. And this sort of a spark Ippo Makanouchi was never built to contain - or approach. 

            The winner is Joe Yabuki.

Oleggator

So, we’ve come to this moment. Took a bit more time, looking a lot longer than expected but overall, it’s good to see what we’ve come to. Ippo vs Joe in its own way is a really unique match up, a legacy of which preceded lots of other Matchups. And debate of which is way closer than it expected to be. But let’s talk about it from step to step. 


First of all stats themselves, at first Joe is stronger and more durable but Ippo is quicker, and both essentially have a way to overcome their disadvantages. Ippo eventually can get stronger and faster through Fighting Spirit & MIX-UP while Joe eventually can overcome speed disadvantage and in advance become more stronger thanks to his natural timing, quick development and adaptation. Take for instance Joe’s fight with Aoyama or Carlos where he was initially blitzed but eventually Joe at bare least matched in speed. And of course we can’t forget the fact that Joe naturally adapts to fights and becomes stronger through the course of the fight. 


And well, Ippo’s high ends exist but both aren’t the best, a helmet that could tank a nuclear explosion can be considered impressive but on another note we can’t make sure if it’s meant that the helmet could tank a nuke directly, cause well, it’s really possible helmet could survive nuke but from a longer distances while applying surface area. After all this isn't the first time when we see items to live through some heavy stuff like Gameboy surviving a bombing. Weird analogy but case in point it definitely could use more direct evidence (that is without pulling out an “outlier” card to be fair with the feat). Same sort of goes to HnI’s Light timing arguments where a technique is called to be as fast as light whereas it probably more hyperbolic, especially considering there are cameras in HnI which can see said punches, Carlos’ light punches probably can compete with that in equal leeway, especially since Joe even called them as “light”, case in point though both HnI and AnJ fights still can be seen through in verse video cameras so like, unless we’re assuming cameras are some advanced technology that can show light at slow motion we probably can’t work with such huge speed feats. At that point, I’d probably have to say stats don’t matter as much here, considering both eventually can overcome the disadvantages of either through some manners. 


Now the real deal are other factors regarding this match: their skill, experience with whatever kind of situation, stamina and their techniques. Battle could end in points, but from how Joe and Ippo usually fight, they’re more likely to end it in KO/TKO. Fight also probably won’t end with either taking advantage of Punch Drunk Syndrome, both are pretty much straightforward enough to somewhat ignore it during the fight. Now some of you remember triangle boxing theory, Sluggers, Out Boxers and Swarmers. If I try to put Ippo’s and Joe’s techniques to give a basis, Ippo probably would be among Swarmers who put pressure into the opponent while Joe would more likely be among Sluggers who don’t care much about being hit and rather just focus on doing high damage. However, Ippo and Joe with the amount of talent and intellect they got in boxing can switch those styles of fight so it doesn’t matter as much, or at least, not works as a deciding factor when talking about them, triangle boxing theory is a theory, after all. 


To make another really quick note, yeah Ippo is definitely more experienced than Joe (what did you expect, HnI is still an ongoing series longer than One Piece while AnJ ended back in 1973, about 5 years since its first debut). It’s definitely an advantage but also probably something Joe eventually can overcome. Joe already faced folks with far bigger experience like Kim Yong-Bi or Jose Mendoza (latter who could put a japanese champion in knockout in the first round in his teenage years, and former who managed to live through war since childhood). Joe himself despite being less educational than Ippo got the skill and smarts of a survivor considering he managed to live from the age of 4-6 up to age of 15-16 while being homeless and relying only on what he finds. 


So on that note, we can go to other neat stuff here, like the fact that both Ippo and Joe essentially are capable of mimicking each other’s techniques, both can do it quite quickly and are talented enough to do so from just seeing them. They can even figure out weaknesses of opponents or their techniques from sheer analysis of body or actions, so it’s possible neither would be easily performing the same moves on each other twice. Even their most famous techniques such as Cross Counter with its variations and Dempsey Roll with its variations. One of the ways Ippo could counter Cross Counter is using Sakki’s feint illusionary attack, or use Gazelle Punch which technically doesn’t require a straight, obviously is also that Ippo’s Dempsey Roll can be tough to be countered with just Cross Counter. On that note however Joe also has ways to change things around, Konnyaku Tactics is a great option to counter Dempsey while not using too much force into a movement, acrobatic Jump Punch is also a technique Dempsey probably can be countered with due to gravitation being more on Joe’s side here, Turtle Guard stance while doesn’t protects fully gives some good defense and if Ippo will push Joe to ropes, latter can use its properties for either Kangaroo Punch or even Rope Uppercut, punches that are powerful enough to put you down perhaps as strong as Cross Counter. 


The other interesting thing to note is the variety of Ippo’s techniques that increase his defense while Joe on the contrary has a bigger variety of techniques where he can increase or spread damage like Corkscrew Punch or other aforementioned techniques. The principle behind Ippo’s defense techniques such as Crouching Stance or Frontal Charge however is lowering punches that have no setup behind themselves, both basically won’t allow Joe to use all of his body mass to do a punch, neither however would be as helpful if, for instance Joe would resort to some rope tactics, considering Joe not only uses his body mass but also a spring action of the ropes. Or Corkscrew Punch which spreads its damage far better than average straights would definitely make up for 50% debuff. Or even if Joe would try to go with acrobatic style and decides to hit from above with his Jump Punch, gravitational force behind the punch can also help to countermeasure debuffs from Ippo’s defensive options.


What would be helpful for Ippo here is Shoulder Block which, while blocking only 30% of the damage, allows him to go into a counter attack. And Cross Arm Block helps to shorten the distance between himself and Joe where he can do a solid defense from Joe’s straights or even Corkscrew punch. But let’s talk a bit more about Joe’s defensive options here, they are also good. Turtle guard stance is something both can go to and combine with their footwork, perhaps Joe eventually can even mimic some of Ippo’s defensive options. Shoulder Grab is something where while Joe leaves himself open, he can eventually tire his opponent out without taking major damage considering stopping shoulders from moving doesn’t allow you to use your full body mass. Aside from that, Joe can also use ropes not only when he himself lies on them but if he pushes Ippo to ropes as well and decides to use Chom-chom’s equivalent, an insane amount of punches which can be stopped only the moment when the referee himself stops Joe. So basically Joe has both strong options if he is pushing Ippo to the ropes or if he is being pushed to the ropes by Ippo. 


Another advantage for Joe to be noted here is if theoretically Ippo would decide to counter Cross or Kangaroo Punch with counters that Joe already experienced (aka Double Cross and Rope hold), Joe would definitely counter them more immediately since it isn’t practically new techniques for him. Ippo on the other hand can attempt to use more of his defensive techniques in case Joe will mimic Dempsey Roll, since the amount of pressure his defensive actions do are enough to counter measure. 


Both can also be literally fearful opponents, Ippo’s punches and Joe…just being himself scares the hell out of their opponents, the amount of fear they can bring with their punches or character is insane. Here in comparison, advantage would probably be on Joe’s side. Sure, Ippo’s punches are scary and a good one feels as if it turns your body apart but Joe at that point would probably even appreciate a strong punch, Joe himself is really good at punching to the point of literally hurting internal organs but besides that, Joe’s determination alone scares his opponents, if their strong punches can put him down, at that point, you start questioning what will. Especially considering Joe managed to make Kim - a living computer with no emotions or remorse for his kills tremble in fear, when his punches should’ve put Joe both morally and physically incapable of fighting (and that all even before Joe started to bleed to cause Kim’s PTSD for the record). Ippo while won’t shit his pants or go crazy or anything like that, but Joe definitely would bring a bit more terror.    


But obviously this all isn’t enough to decide a victor, if both can close their gaps in stats, skill or techniques, what do we have left? One word - Stamina. Essentially the battle turns into a comparison between Ippo’s Fighting Spirit and Joe’s Sheer Willpower. And it is tricky to say who’ll be doing better on that matter. Both Ippo and Joe got immense amounts of stamina and will to just keep fighting. With some other fighters in HnI this Fighting Spirit both boosts in power and makes them fight while unconscious or maybe even near dead. Joe and his Willpower however are both more consistent and practically a lot more dangerous. As mentioned before, Joe’s will is something Kim was confused and terrified by, and Jose just lost his focus at all, Joe essentially at that point was fighting as if a ghost possessed him. Even from the beginning of the series Joe could take hard punches, have no stamina, experience immense amounts of pain and still would have balls to fight as if he wasn’t damaged. Joe not only managed to keep fighting while being unconscious or practically dead, but also still used boxing techniques he remembers, most importantly all of that is done by Joe directly and more consistent to say that in the long run, despite Ippo’s stamina being really good, Joe’s is better at that game. 


Overall conclusion. This is a really, REALLY, close match from my point of view and the winner of it wins by a hair, both are smart as hell, very versatile and tough boxers. Both got skill, both got technique, both got several ways to put the fight into their advantage and styles to counter measure each other. But Joe’s sheer will to take punches and keep fighting allows Joe to make a bit more mistakes while also keeping on par in techniques, countermeasures and most importantly eventually outlast Ippo. Ippo had some strong first steps but Joe’s flame was too tough for him to stand tomorrow. The winner is Joe Yabuki!

Final Tally


Team Ippo: Z1

Team Joe: Lunge the Fish, Oleggator 




Next Time...

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